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	<title>Comments on: A first: String theory predicts an experimental result</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/</link>
	<description>extra dimensions of particle physics</description>
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		<title>By: Glennda Chui</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-11157</link>
		<dc:creator>Glennda Chui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-11157</guid>
		<description>Re references to specific calculations: I asked Clifford Johnson and he suggested going to this post on his blog:  http://asymptotia.com/2007/08/22/exploring-qcd-in-cambridge/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re references to specific calculations: I asked Clifford Johnson and he suggested going to this post on his blog:  <a href="http://asymptotia.com/2007/08/22/exploring-qcd-in-cambridge/" rel="nofollow">http://asymptotia.com/2007/08/22/exploring-qcd-in-cambridge/</a></p>
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		<title>By: azzadazu</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-11150</link>
		<dc:creator>azzadazu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-11150</guid>
		<description>How can I see some explicit calculation? Or at least a reference to one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can I see some explicit calculation? Or at least a reference to one?</p>
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		<title>By: Torbjörn Larsson, OM</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-11101</link>
		<dc:creator>Torbjörn Larsson, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-11101</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
What’s going on is that calculational tools from string theory are being used to perform computations that are otherwise very hard to do. This isn’t the first, and won’t be the last, time this has happened - string theory is a very powerful set of ideas with deep connections to almost all of theoretical particle physics.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True. OTOH theoretical physics tools aren&#039;t exactly axiomatized math either (as some commenters seems to say), so a successful application here reveals that it is indeed physics and not merely a math model.

But at a guess these researchers are simply excited because it means that string theory, such as it is, is correct, and useful - and that they have opportunity to improve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
What’s going on is that calculational tools from string theory are being used to perform computations that are otherwise very hard to do. This isn’t the first, and won’t be the last, time this has happened &#8211; string theory is a very powerful set of ideas with deep connections to almost all of theoretical particle physics.
</p></blockquote>
<p>True. OTOH theoretical physics tools aren&#8217;t exactly axiomatized math either (as some commenters seems to say), so a successful application here reveals that it is indeed physics and not merely a math model.</p>
<p>But at a guess these researchers are simply excited because it means that string theory, such as it is, is correct, and useful &#8211; and that they have opportunity to improve it.</p>
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		<title>By: Science Etcetera, Marsday 20090224 &#124; ideonexus.com</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-11069</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Etcetera, Marsday 20090224 &#124; ideonexus.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 05:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-11069</guid>
		<description>[...] String Theory finally predicts an experimental result. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] String Theory finally predicts an experimental result. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Just Learning</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-11059</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Learning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-11059</guid>
		<description>The fundamental importance of this is the connecting of theoretical objects like the membrane and the string to a system that is observed.  Regardless of the evolution of the concept, there is a rigorous mathematical understanding about how these objects should behave.  These are very early days, and the importance of further experiments and the potential of the string theory model are equivalent to the days of J.J. Thomson and the plum-pudding model.  Although Thomson&#039;s model was wrong, it set the stage for Rutherford and generated ideas about what kind of experiments one could do.  This is quite an exciting time for physics I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fundamental importance of this is the connecting of theoretical objects like the membrane and the string to a system that is observed.  Regardless of the evolution of the concept, there is a rigorous mathematical understanding about how these objects should behave.  These are very early days, and the importance of further experiments and the potential of the string theory model are equivalent to the days of J.J. Thomson and the plum-pudding model.  Although Thomson&#8217;s model was wrong, it set the stage for Rutherford and generated ideas about what kind of experiments one could do.  This is quite an exciting time for physics I think.</p>
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		<title>By: A.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-10871</link>
		<dc:creator>A.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-10871</guid>
		<description>This is like saying that experiments have proven the existence of Hilbert Space, because Quantum Mechanics works so well. Hilbert Space is a mathematical tool, that can be used any where including in QM, that a mathematical tool can be used to calculate something in the different context has nothing to do with the questions that mathematical tool was created to respond. 

   But then again, this has been a constant theme for string theorists. It was created to help with understanding Nuclear forces, failed there, then it was branded as a tool for QG, resolving divergence issues, failed there too, then it was re-branded as a theory of every thing, that unifies all other fields, spectacularly failed there. now it is being re-branded as a computational tool to calculate stuff in nuclear physics.  Here is my question, how many times a formalism must fail for it to be abandoned? Isn&#039;t 40 years enough and devotion of the best minds of physics, creating some of the most intractable body of intellectual work to-date enough ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is like saying that experiments have proven the existence of Hilbert Space, because Quantum Mechanics works so well. Hilbert Space is a mathematical tool, that can be used any where including in QM, that a mathematical tool can be used to calculate something in the different context has nothing to do with the questions that mathematical tool was created to respond. </p>
<p>   But then again, this has been a constant theme for string theorists. It was created to help with understanding Nuclear forces, failed there, then it was branded as a tool for QG, resolving divergence issues, failed there too, then it was re-branded as a theory of every thing, that unifies all other fields, spectacularly failed there. now it is being re-branded as a computational tool to calculate stuff in nuclear physics.  Here is my question, how many times a formalism must fail for it to be abandoned? Isn&#8217;t 40 years enough and devotion of the best minds of physics, creating some of the most intractable body of intellectual work to-date enough ?</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-10847</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-10847</guid>
		<description>How can I see some explicit calculation? Or at least a reference to one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can I see some explicit calculation? Or at least a reference to one?</p>
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		<title>By: Lucky Star</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-10802</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucky Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-10802</guid>
		<description>So we have the  &quot;Use of Common Tool&quot; proof?   

So let&#039;s propose a theory such as:  &#039;We can talk to dead relatives in the afterlife&#039;.

And now we attempt to contact these dead people by using a cell phone.  The attempt results in undefined static which is undergoing further analysis.

However,  the cell phone tool has been 99.9% successful in contacting living people.  So can we say that we have shown &quot;new results that point to the existence of an afterlife&quot;??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we have the  &#8220;Use of Common Tool&#8221; proof?   </p>
<p>So let&#8217;s propose a theory such as:  &#8216;We can talk to dead relatives in the afterlife&#8217;.</p>
<p>And now we attempt to contact these dead people by using a cell phone.  The attempt results in undefined static which is undergoing further analysis.</p>
<p>However,  the cell phone tool has been 99.9% successful in contacting living people.  So can we say that we have shown &#8220;new results that point to the existence of an afterlife&#8221;??</p>
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		<title>By: Some Articles at Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-10769</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Articles at Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-10769</guid>
		<description>[...] different takes on the same presentation and discussion event. So far, I&#8217;ve seen the one by Glennda Chui at Symmetry Breaking, which had the mixed blessing of being tagged by Digg (the server was down for hours as a result!), [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] different takes on the same presentation and discussion event. So far, I&#8217;ve seen the one by Glennda Chui at Symmetry Breaking, which had the mixed blessing of being tagged by Digg (the server was down for hours as a result!), [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leonard Ornstein</title>
		<link>http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/02/16/a-first-string-theory-predicts-an-experimental-result/comment-page-1/#comment-10745</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonard Ornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/?p=2609#comment-10745</guid>
		<description>String theory has developed an intriguing tool-box. This tool-box is purely mathematical. 

All math depends upon agreed upon deductive axiomatic systems, including an axiomatic set of &#039;logical&#039; rules, to test conjectures to try to establish which are true theorems; it does NOT require EMPIRICAL testing of its true theorems.

As Peter Woit (above) notes, successfully using a mathematical tool, developed in the context of elaborating string theory, to predict the behavior of a physical system, need have no relevance to the physicality of 11-dimensional string theory, where the tool was &#039;discovered&#039;.

Science uses deduction (including all kinds of mathematics) and abduction to create testable models (theories, hypotheses, conjectures, speculations, ideas) that MUST then be checked with (empirical) observations of &#039;reality&#039;, in order to distinguish which of them are science, rather than &quot;just so stories&quot;.

This interesting use of &#039;string theory TOOLS&#039;, doesn&#039;t yet contribute to distinguishing string theories from just so stories!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>String theory has developed an intriguing tool-box. This tool-box is purely mathematical. </p>
<p>All math depends upon agreed upon deductive axiomatic systems, including an axiomatic set of &#8216;logical&#8217; rules, to test conjectures to try to establish which are true theorems; it does NOT require EMPIRICAL testing of its true theorems.</p>
<p>As Peter Woit (above) notes, successfully using a mathematical tool, developed in the context of elaborating string theory, to predict the behavior of a physical system, need have no relevance to the physicality of 11-dimensional string theory, where the tool was &#8216;discovered&#8217;.</p>
<p>Science uses deduction (including all kinds of mathematics) and abduction to create testable models (theories, hypotheses, conjectures, speculations, ideas) that MUST then be checked with (empirical) observations of &#8216;reality&#8217;, in order to distinguish which of them are science, rather than &#8220;just so stories&#8221;.</p>
<p>This interesting use of &#8217;string theory TOOLS&#8217;, doesn&#8217;t yet contribute to distinguishing string theories from just so stories!</p>
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